Buderus boiler problems
I have a Buderus boiler g115 Riello burner 40 series indirect water been installed 2yrs having a problem seems to shut down over a 24 hr period. Power goes off and have to reset it by the emergency switch. Have a Taco SR502,Guard Dog RB-122-E low water cut off and a Honeywell L7248C Circuit breaker seems ok doesn't trip checked for loose connection none that I can see, any help would be appreciated Thanks G.P. Most likely shut down on a 'no flame' condition... in other words, burner didn't light for some reason. Oil system burners should be serviced yearly, so if it hasn't been done since installed, now is the time ! thanks for reply I had it cleaned this yr starting to think about the low water cut off I changed the primary control board in the riello burner and since I did that it shuts down every morning. Last night I checked it at around 12 pm and it was ok but this morning was out again seems to run perfect all day without problems also wondering if I got a new but bad control board since the old one use to shut down every 2 to 3 days now like clock work ever morning it's off. starting to think about the low water cut off The 122 has a reset button correct? If it was low water I believe that needs to be reset seperatly. I am not sure if turning the power off resets the LWCO. The red indicator light should be on if a low watersituation occured. Whats the pressure and temps on the boiler gauge? I would say you have a indirect HW tank correct? Possibly a relay in the taco 502? Trooper does no flame require a manual reset of the burner control? The stat at the indirect? Support manuals. Buderus Manuals for Support | Since 1825 Developing Heating Technologies | Boilers | Solar Products Some specs. http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/Fil...102-082%29.pdf Patriot Supply - 144676 Mike NJ Trooper does no flame require a manual reset of the burner control? I'm not at all sure about Riello burners... if it were a Beckett (et al) then yes, one would have to reset the oil primary control on the burner itself. Power on/off/on would not do it. Guy, what exactly do you mean by: Power goes off and have to reset it by the emergency switch. I'm sorry, but I do have to ask the requisite 'duhhhh' question. How is your oil level in your tank? Thanks for the info on the lwco will have to check that tommorow The water temp on boiler drops down when this happens about 1 change or so at least when I checked it last. Will look at the taco relay and try to check that out. As far as the no flame reset I don't know I do know that the only way I can restart the burner is with the emergency switch. Thanks for the imput like I said didnt realize there was light at the lwco just tried and the light came on and had to use the switch to enable the burner again. Have to turn the emergency switch at the top of stairs or at the boiler. As far as the oil the tank is at 7/8th full Its confusing the heck out of me. Had made a call to Taco saturday and said they will get back to me in 24 hrs There are some fuses in the taco will have to recheck them also OK, when you say no power ... do you mean that you don't have 120 VAC going to the system? Is the green power light on the 502 ON ? or OFF ? If a fuse in the 502 was blown, it would be blown, and no amount of cycling the power would change that. Can you tell if when the burner doesn't fire, is there a pump running? or no ? I'm sure that at this time of year, the only calls that the system is getting are from the indirect, but have you pushed a heating thermostat way up to like 90 or so, just to determine if the other 'channels' in the Taco are working? In other words, you need to narrow down the problem by testing to see what works and what doesn't. If you push a thermostat up to 90, and the boiler fires, then you can be pretty sure that the boiler is OK, and either the control on the indirect, or that particular channel in the 502 is the problem. Do you have a multimeter and know use it? Correct 120 VAC not going to boiler Green light is off on the 502 as far as knowing when the burner doesn't fire don't really know right now its on from wife washing dishes Pretty sure boiler is ok turned on heat and the 502 showed it's working ok heat did come on. Have a mutilmeter and can read it ok Never tried to trouble shoot that big of a problem but can try Just to clarify. The unit does fuction during the day does make and maintain hot water shuts power off sometime during early morning hrs as far I can figure. As I said before checked it around 12 am and it was ok may have confused the post when I mistakenly said 12 pm sorry about that. OK then, it sounds like a different sort of trouble then. If the power light on the 502 is OFF, then you need to look at the reason for that. Could be a faulty 502 with an intermittent connection somewhere... or maybe that 'emergency' switch itself is defective? When you see the power LED on the 502 OFF, and the boiler not firing, check to see if you have 120 VAC going to the input H and N on the 502 panel. If you DO have 120 VAC there, the problem is with the 502 panel. If you do NOT have 120 VAC there, then the problem is with the 120 wiring going to the panel. Possibly a bad switch. If it does turn out to be a bad switch, and it's one of those el cheapo 49 cent ones from big box store, spend a few extra bucks and buy a GOOD switch that is rated for 20 AMPS. Thanks for that info. Yesterday it went off at 11pm, left it off but this morning it was on, tighten the probe in the lwco now just wait I guess to see if it goes off again. Checked the wiring and everything goes through the lwco so will see what happens tonight. Didn't go off last night so just may have been the lwco at least I'm hoping that was it. Will know for sure in a couple of days. Can't believe just tightend the wing nut on probe would do, it but just maybe Anyway want to thank you guys for all the help and suggestions. If the problem is fixed will post it just to let you know for sure Again Thanks for all the help. Just wanted to say thank you all problem was with the lwco installer put it in buderus and not in the riser as it should have been according to Buderus Techs. Asked if he installer can lower it just below suppy but he thought not. So thats why it worked fine with 20 lbs psi. Will have to get it resolved. Again Thanks to all. LWCO has nothing at all to do with pressure... only whether or not there is water surrounding the probe. You may be chasing a goose. I was told by buderus tech that where he put it was to high so in order to put water around the lwco he raised the psi. according to the tech he said which I really didn't think, was there was no water at the level he put the lwco. At this point it's more confusing to me . since it's set at 20psi it's been fine. When I started haveing the problem I had put the psi at 17 psi and thats when it started. The Buderus logano g1154sw manual says if it goes to 15lbs to add water.. Like I said at this point running fine but I just don't know anymore. hmmmm... say this nicely... someone is bs'ing you. In a hot water system, the entire thing is FULL of water, bottom to top. If the red light on the guard dog isn't lighting, then the problem isn't with it cutting off because it's not in the water. There might be something ELSE wrong with it, but it doesn't rely on pressure for anything. I haven't looked at the manual for your boiler or controls in a while, but it is possible that there is some kind of pressure switch... I don't remember... just thinking out loud, but I doubt that it's a pressure problem because hot water systems are typically designed for a TWELVE PSI minimum pressure. Thanks for confusing me more LOL I didn't quite believe the buderus tech when he said that there is no water at that level either. Only thing I can say is the boiler has been working fine now,Only thing I did was tighten the wing nut on the probe into the boiler and now the red light on the lwco don't come on anymore. Also while I'm at it I asked him the tech about the pressure and told him the system had I belive 1-3/4 pipe and if that had anything to do with psi. but like I said they say if presure goes below 15 lbs add water to system. About to throw up my hands at this point. Only good thing now is it's working fine and hasn't shut down since I posted about the tightening the lwco probe wing nut which was loose.. Hi, What I would probably do, because I have OCD, is lower the boiler pressure by draining alittle water out and see how it runs. This will tell you if it was that loose wing nut. Also here are the install manuals. From what I read there are specific install instructions with regards to the proper tapping. There is addition probes for different size pipe...etc. And it says nothing about a minimum PSI. Just a max. Its a conductance type unit with a sensitivity of 20,000 ohms. http://completewatersystems.com/wp-c...11/05/1446.pdf Like trooper says you may need a shovel for the BS you have been getting......... Mike NJ Sorry don't know if I misspoke but I was talking about the buderus psi It says in the maual the if it goes below 15psi to add water but will try what you said about draining a little water to double check. I know my older boiler stood about 12 psi and had no problems with that. Page 28 section 8-1 ... 12-15 psi. What manual are you looking at? http://www.buderus.us/files/20100122...Manual0304.pdf Oh correction on this boiler minimum 15 psi. Page 37 section 8-4. Is this your boiler? http://www.buderus.us/files/20100122...rvice_0807.pdf But I doubt that has anything to do with the LWCO. Unless you had a low water situation and there was no make up water available. Poosible just filling and purging the system corrected it. Why that boiler needs 15 psi I dont know. I would assume so the pump can push the water better and or the passages are smaller. It says its a low temp boiler???? Perhaps Trooper can learn us some more...Ha, ha. Mike NJ Yep thats it it is the 4 section one. Logano G115WS/4 Also I'm 2nd owner of this home. The guy who built was a plumber and it really nice to see but like I said 1 and 3/4 pipe down 44 ft and then 2 and 1/2 lines back and a bunch of looks like 11/4 feeds to cast iron baseboard don't know if that has anything to do with how much pressure but like I said had a old burham commercial boiler in here for 56 yrs and still worked but was huge The guy who took it out claimed the 3 sections where 930 lbs don't know if it was true but had no reason to doubt him at the time..Think the model was g12 or something like that but looked it up and still make the model but a lot diff now. said it was a commercial boiler So you put that boiler in and all the old piping is there from the last boiler? Gee I wonder if its even piped correctly for optimal eff. Boiler or system by pass and stuff like that. We would love to see pics if you got them. Take from all angles, wides, and close ups of controls. There are alot of boiler guys that will offer advice. Hey we all want to save money right? Mike NJ I didn't put in had a Oil Company do it. I tried the pic's but can't get them on here can attach and stuff like that but new to this part don't have photo bucket which I seen here but other then that lost. simple 2 zone one for indirect water and other for heat. According to the buderus tech I told him about it and he said 20lbs would be ok but now since chatting with you guys starting to doubt him. You said the wing nut that connects the green? wire to the probe was loose? Like loose as that goose you been chasing? If so, then my money is on the fact that was the whole problem with the shutdowns, ESPECIALLY if the red LED came on intermittently. Those devices are pretty sensitive... they measure the conductance of the water, and any loose wires will give bad readings and shut 'er down. If you did wanna put up pics, you would have to go to Image hosting, free photo sharing video sharing at Photobucket (or another decent photo hosting site) and set up a FREE account. Upload your photos there, and then come back here and post a link to your PUBLIC photo album. A little more about system pressure... I don't know the reasons why Buderus is saying 15 PSI, but if the manf says so, then that's what you want to do. The system pressure will almost never sit at 12 or 15 or any number permanently. The pressure will always change between hot and cold because water expands when heated. You have an expansion tank on your system that is partially full of air (which CAN be compressed, whereas water can NOT) that allows this expanded water a place to go without over pressurizing your boiler and system. If you start cold at 15, you should expect to see an increase as the system heats up, perhaps as high as 25 PSI... more or less depending on the size of your expansion tank and the volume of water in your system. That increase is NORMAL. There is also a PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE on your system. It is set (usually for residential systems) at 30 PSI. It's job is to open and relieve excess pressure in the system in the event your expansion tank or the automatic feed regulator fails. Bottom line on pressure is this: As long as you have enough pressure in the system (minimum 12-15) to completely fill the system to the top, and the expansion tank is in good shape so the pressure doesn't rise high enough to blow the relief valve, yer good to go. While your LWCO may not be in an ideal location, it may just work fine where it is, as long as the connections are clean and tight. Thanks that makes me feel better since that was done it's been fine. Just to elaborate on the pressure before having the buderus installed I was talking to a boiler man who works for one of the major co's here in ct I asked him about the boilers and said because of what I had here in piping He suggested Utica or burnham because of water supply didn't pay much attention but I got the impression that he was talking about amount of water in system .. But any way thanks for all the help don't know if this would work but heres a couple of shot's not to good as you can see lwco in back kind of even with supply there is another spot below that it could go to but best place is in riser if not to much trouble Pictures by guysr1 - Photobucket Yessir, worked perfectly, and it looks from what I can see in the pics to be a fine installation. If your piping is all large diameter, it means you have a pretty fair volume of water in your system. Some boilers may be better suited to large water volume systems for various reasons and that may be what your guy was talking about. Fact is that ANY boiler can be made to function properly in a large water volume system provided this is accounted for and the piping is done properly. I can't say if yours is or isn't done properly since we can't see the big picture, but what I can see tells me that your installers cared about what they were doing and most likely it's a good install. Made a mistake and for some reason picture showed up in full sorry about that Don't know what ya mean, pics looked fine to me? Did you know that you can link to them and put them inside a post here also... there's an icon above the bar that's called 'Insert Image' ... if you click that, you can take the info called 'direct link' from photobucket and paste that into the box... then your image will show up here, like this: I see nothing wrong with your install at all... if it's working, leave the LWCO where it is. Looks good. What happen to the other two pics? All I see that should be done is the relief valve and backflow are not piped within 6to the floor. The fill valve is ****-eyed but just cosmetic. It always amazes me why they put stuff that may develop leaks, and hang them right over the boiler. It may be the pic but it sure looks loke it. Nice and neat install though. Just take care of the relief piping. Trooper that boiler says low temp. Whats that? I tried to figure it out in the documentation but it really does not specify. Also if that is a low temp boiler would it benefit from bypass piping? It would be ashame to have condensation issues with a nice new boiler. What temp??? Mike NJ I tought it would be wrong to send the Picture like that ..but if its ok before it was like that and i edited it out. ok guess Im set then Im all set. Like before thanks for all the help.. Guysr1 what temp is that boiler run at? Mike NJ about 170 Mike and that And where the pressure valve is I think thats where they say to put looked a other install and they were in the same place. and the refill valve is leaning a little but first time I used photo bucket so I delete them in my album not knowing they were going to delete them on the forum sorry about that.. No what I mean is a pipe should be added to the discharge ports of the relief valve and backflow preventer. If the relief valve ever discharged it would blow the hot steaming water to the floor so it would'nt burn someones face off. The backflow typically would discharge boiler water at a slower rate if house water pressure was lost for whatever reason. That is the device next to the crooked fill valve. You see the port on the bottom? 170F? Just wondering why the manual states a low temp boiler? Hopefully trooper could clarify. Mike NJ sorry about that mike temp is about 140 or so can't see to much need tri focals. Also it could be brought out about 1 inch and half that is right in line with the return.. Why that boiler needs 15 psi I dont know. I would assume so the pump can push the water better and or the passages are smaller. It says its a low temp boiler???? The higher the pressure the smaller the air bubbles. That boiler obviously has smaller than normal passages on the waterside. Low temperature is anything less than 240 degrees F. according to ASME rules. Checked the temp like I said can't see that great with little lines but as close as I can figure the boiler temp looks to be around between 150 and 160 degrees not 140 I just came across this thread I don't see the LWCO in question BUT I do see a possible BIG problem with the vent pipe. From the picture it looks like the boiler vent might be going into the flue for the fireplace. If this is the case it's a major no-no. Also didn't see a barometric damper. See pages 18 19 of the manual regarding venting. Regarding the possible problem with the LWCO, one thing which will cause problems with them is lack of proper clearance around the probe. They must have at least 1/4 from any metal from any part of the probe. Funy Grady, I did not even see the fireplace in the pic. Also I think your right no vent damper. The LWCO I think is directly on top of the boiler. I notice the preformed manifolds for the supply and returns are just capped. Does that cause issues? I would of on the return not added the tee for the water feed, but instead put the water feed where the cap is with an elbow. Or add an air vent at least. I guess the cap on the feed side manifold should of got a boiler drain at least right? And again I never understand why some installers insist on hanging pipe directly over the boilers... Mike NJ
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