Finish screened in patio with windows
I am looking to take my screened in porch that I have now and making it into a semi sun room by putting windows all the way around, just to keep the elements out. For the life of me I can't find anything about recommened windows. Will just regular storm windows work since this area is not heated / cooled? Also does lowes carry some kind of storm / utility window that I can already just put inbetween the exsisting studs? I'm on a somewhat tight budget so don't want to put a lot of money into windows. Also any recommendations on the door? Right now it has a cheap, crappy wooden screen door and I'd like to get a storm door on there to stay flush with the cement patio, which I think will involve reframing the door Thanks Storm windows are one of the easiest ways to enclose a screen room, since you can close them in the winter and open them in the summer. You'll likely need custom sized storm windows, unless you want to completely reframe the room with standard sized storm windows in mind. Spend the extra dollars to get storm windows that come with a factory finish- pick a color that blends well with your exterior. Personally, I don't like storm doors to be the primary door in and out of a ground level room, because the storm door sweep drags on the ground and quickly wears out. Of course, mounting a threshold to the opening would help with that, but storm doors aren't completely weather tight, either. Instead, I'd suggest you look into installing a standard sized exterior door, perhaps choosing a self-storing window (operating window w/screen) as an optional window within the door. If you'd like it to be self closing, just mount a commercial door closer on it. brianh715, Be careful how you go about this! For the room to qualify (and remain) non-conditioned space, it has to be 65% open along the longest wall and one other wall. What that means is that you can't use standard XO sliders that you will find in a big box store for the windows. They can't be fully opened since one pane is fixed in place. The window itself is only 50% open -- how can you get the wall to be 65% open with those in place?? (You can't!) Removable storm windows over your existing openings will work (assuming that your existing openings are at least 65% open.) The operative word there is REMOVABLE. And as usual, I agree with XSleeper about the door. Something with a threshold so that the sweep doesn't drag on the concrete and wear out every year or so. Originally Posted by lefty brianh715, Be careful how you go about this! For the room to qualify (and remain) non-conditioned space, it has to be 65% open along the longest wall and one other wall. What that means is that you can't use standard XO sliders that you will find in a big box store for the windows. They can't be fully opened since one pane is fixed in place. The window itself is only 50% open -- how can you get the wall to be 65% open with those in place?? (You can't!) Removable storm windows over your existing openings will work (assuming that your existing openings are at least 65% open.) The operative word there is REMOVABLE. And as usual, I agree with XSleeper about the door. Something with a threshold so that the sweep doesn't drag on the concrete and wear out every year or so. Thanks for your answers guys.. I'm not really following you by the 65% open, you mean the window has to be able to open 65% of the way? Is this a code or what? I'd like something that opens in the summer and closes in the winter w/o putting two sets of windows up, are you saying that can't be done w/o adding removable windows to meet code or something? Thanks again! brianh715, This is a code thing, and has to be followed in order for the room to meet the non-conditioned space requirements. It is calculated using the total of longest wall and one other wall. Follow me -- You have a wall that is 7 feet high and 16 feet, 9 inches long. If you put windows in that wall that that are 48 wide and 60 tall that have BOTH panes removable, with a 3 mullion between each window, that wall would be concidered a bit over 68% open -- 117 sq. ft. of wall and 80 sq. ft. of screens when the panes are removed. As long as one other wall in that room is built so that the total of the 2 is more than 65% open, that room qualifies as meeting the non-conditioned space requirements. (The room can be built as an 'enclosed patio cover' and doesn't have to meet Title 24 requirements for energy calculations.) Realistically, it is followed, but with a LOT of leeway. My experience has been that as long as I use windows that have BOTH panes removable, and I can get more than 60% of the 2 walls to be done with those windows, it gets approved. The plan checkers have never called me on it, and the inspectors, for the most part, say that if I built the room to the approved plans, it's good. My GUESS is that the plan checkers overlook this little requirement, and as long as they are overlooking it, it CERTAINLY won't be me who opens a can of worms by asking questions!! They approve it, I build it, the inspector passes it, the customer loves his new room, I take my check to the bank and EVERYBODY'S happy. The point I'm making is that you'll never even come CLOSE to the 65% open requirement if you use windows that have a fixed pane. The window itself is less than 50% open -- only one pane can be removed. Originally Posted by lefty brianh715, This is a code thing, and has to be followed in order for the room to meet the non-conditioned space requirements. It is calculated using the total of longest wall and one other wall. Follow me -- You have a wall that is 7 feet high and 16 feet, 9 inches long. If you put windows in that wall that that are 48 wide and 60 tall that have BOTH panes removable, with a 3 mullion between each window, that wall would be concidered a bit over 68% open -- 117 sq. ft. of wall and 80 sq. ft. of screens when the panes are removed. As long as one other wall in that room is built so that the total of the 2 is more than 65% open, that room qualifies as meeting the non-conditioned space requirements. (The room can be built as an 'enclosed patio cover' and doesn't have to meet Title 24 requirements for energy calculations.) Realistically, it is followed, but with a LOT of leeway. My experience has been that as long as I use windows that have BOTH panes removable, and I can get more than 60% of the 2 walls to be done with those windows, it gets approved. The plan checkers have never called me on it, and the inspectors, for the most part, say that if I built the room to the approved plans, it's good. My GUESS is that the plan checkers overlook this little requirement, and as long as they are overlooking it, it CERTAINLY won't be me who opens a can of worms by asking questions!! They approve it, I build it, the inspector passes it, the customer loves his new room, I take my check to the bank and EVERYBODY'S happy. The point I'm making is that you'll never even come CLOSE to the 65% open requirement if you use windows that have a fixed pane. The window itself is less than 50% open -- only one pane can be removed. OK, thanks for dumbing it down for me! I got it now. This house was built in the mid 50's and the screened in porch is already framed and roofed. I just bought it (i'm a first time home owner) so if I finish it and don't follow that code what, in reality, are the odds of running into problems when I sell the house years and years down the road? I'm only 25 so I don't plan on moving within the next 10 or so years, if at all. also if pictures would help I could get some pictures of the insdie and outside of the porch. Your house is the same age as mine. We've been here a bit over 30 years, so we've seen a lot of changes in the neighborhood -- homes getting remodeled, neighbors moving in and out, etc. Some of the remodeling gets done with permits, some doesn't. Some meets code, some doesn't. About the only time it has ever become an issue for a seller is when the unpermitted work was really shoddy. (There have been a few folks around here that have simply not had a clue!!) Liability laws for the realtors have become such that the disclosure statements have become small books. Originally Posted by lefty Your house is the same age as mine. We've been here a bit over 30 years, so we've seen a lot of changes in the neighborhood -- homes getting remodeled, neighbors moving in and out, etc. Some of the remodeling gets done with permits, some doesn't. Some meets code, some doesn't. About the only time it has ever become an issue for a seller is when the unpermitted work was really shoddy. (There have been a few folks around here that have simply not had a clue!!) Liability laws for the realtors have become such that the disclosure statements have become small books. Ok thanks. I am not planning on doing a shoddy job. I have experience doing these things just never purchasing the material. The framing is all done so if it has passed without problem before I assume it'll pass without a problem now. Thanks for all the tips and advice! brianh715, Pictures would help. Assuming that the framing and roof had a permit and past the inspections, you shouldn't have too many problems, UNLESS the inspector feels that you are trying to do this to convert it to living space at some point in the future. I don't think that's your intention based on what you have posted, but do be aware that non-conditioned space (covered and enclosed patios) can be built one way, but living space has to be built totally differently. And hey, I'm not trying to 'dumb anybody down' in here. I just try to spell out what those portions of the building codes that I deal with daily are saying. Any homeowner who's a rocket scientist or a 9 to 5 clerk that actually reads the portion of any given building code that relates to non-conditioned space would probably have a hard time deciphering just what it means. I just tried to put it in plain english! When I get into a section of the codes that I can't make heads or tails out of, I go see somebody who can explain it to me in terms that I can understand. Trust me, a good portion of the building codes are not written in any terms that the average person can understand. We ALL need an interpruter now and than! Originally Posted by lefty brianh715, Pictures would help. Assuming that the framing and roof had a permit and past the inspections, you shouldn't have too many problems, UNLESS the inspector feels that you are trying to do this to convert it to living space at some point in the future. I don't think that's your intention based on what you have posted, but do be aware that non-conditioned space (covered and enclosed patios) can be built one way, but living space has to be built totally differently. And hey, I'm not trying to 'dumb anybody down' in here. I just try to spell out what those portions of the building codes that I deal with daily are saying. Any homeowner who's a rocket scientist or a 9 to 5 clerk that actually reads the portion of any given building code that relates to non-conditioned space would probably have a hard time deciphering just what it means. I just tried to put it in plain english! When I get into a section of the codes that I can't make heads or tails out of, I go see somebody who can explain it to me in terms that I can understand. Trust me, a good portion of the building codes are not written in any terms that the average person can understand. We ALL need an interpruter now and than! PM me your email and I will send some pictures via email this week! Anyone know of windows that you can remove the window leaving the frame and screen? Any help would be great! Derk31, Welcome to the forums. You've dug up a 2 year old thread, but don't feel bad -- others have dug up 10 year old threads!! The key is to have BOTH panes of the window removable. You won't find that in a big box store. You'll need to deal with a contractor or supplier that specializes in patio rooms or patio covers. Like Lefty said, use a window with removable sashes. You can use a sliding storm window but make sure it has a full screen. This is what it is: http://www.kaufmannwindow.com/pdf/riviera.pdf
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